No Waiting Between Meat and Milk?

Intro

In order to answer the Kosher Kiss questions, we must also answer the question of how long must one wait between meat and milk.

The predominant practices are 6 hours, into the 6th hour (meaning a fraction of a second past 5 hours), 3 hours and 1 hour.

What the sources actually say, however, is quite varied. Some say one needn't wait at all - though others indicate we should wait 24 hours! Read the rest of this post to learn the details.

Sources

1 hour and 6 hours traditionally are viewed as the most halachic valild - but if you look at the gemarra in chullin 105a, Mar Ukva says his father waited 24 hours after eating meat before eating dairy. I've never heard of someone alive anyone holding 24 hours.

In fact, that gemarra is the source of our waiting. Mar Ukva informs us that "compared to his father, he was like vinegar compared to wine. When my father would eat meat today at this time, he would not eat cheese until tomorrow at this time. I, though, wait only until the next meal."

The problem is, he didn't say when his next meal would be, leaving our halachic decisors the trouble of trying to legislate it for us.

Lots of people held the time should be six hours. Their logic was that the first meal of the day was eaten at six hours into the day and the final meal of the day was eaten at the end of the day (12 hours into the day) - or six hours later. Maimonides, or the Rambam, explains this in the Mishne Torah (Hilchos Ma'achalos Asuros 9:28).

Of course, that would mean the notion of waiting six hours doesn't give time for the first meal to be eaten (so they would wait six hours from the start of the first meal, but not from the end of the first meal), and it implies six solar hours, which may be shorter or longer than six of our modern hours.

The Rosh explains similar logic for arriving at six hours. Their (Rambam & Rosh's) proposal is the basis for the six hour opinion adopted by Hagahos Ashiri, the Rif, the Ran, the Rashba, and others.

Waiting Less than 6 Hours

However, we 'liberal' orthodox jews have some hope for waiting less than six hours - even if it is only six solar hours from when we started our meal and not six modern hours from when we finish eating meat or finish bentsching.

Tosefos on Chullin 105a and Rabbeinu Tam (cited in Tosefos on Chullin 104a) hold that one need not wait a specific amount of time, but only until their next meal. Tosofos says that the restriction for not eating dairy right after eating meat applies only when one hasn't cleaned and rinsed one's mouth (kinuach v'hadacha).

The Rema (on Shulchan Aruch Yoreh Deah 89:1) says there are those who say that "one need not wait six hours, rather immediately after clearing the table and reciting birkat ha-mazon one may eat cheese after cleaning and rinsing one's mouth. The common custom in these areas is to wait one hour after eating meat and then to eat cheese, as long as one recites birkat ha-mazon, as it is considered as new meal."

Hence we have the "Dutch" halacha of waiting 1 hour. Technically the Rema didn't even say you need to wait an hour - he brings proofs for simply waching one's mouth, saying your after bracha and following the tosefot by digging into If you want to be a 'frummie' then perhaps you will accept the minhag prevelant in his time and space, which was to wait one hour, or you can be scrupulous (which admittedly the Rema himself recommends) and wait six hours. However, the Rema holds that you no waiting is needed, just an after bracha, and a mouth rinse and wash.

Wrap Up

Halachically, the Rema (an acharon) holds that one needs not wait at all after eating meat before eating dairy. He says that rinsing/washing one's mouth and saying the after blessing preps us to move on to the next meal, which may be dairy if we desire.

Granted, he says it is best to wait six hours, but hes says that is for those who are scrupulous, and not what God asks for as the basic law.

So, back to our initial kiss question, you will see that even if one's mouth obtains the kashrut status of their food, you could simply say the after bracho and then rinse and kiss.

Coming up next post... Does food leave a residue in your mouth, or is the waiting based upon food in your stomach or caught between your teeth - all in the name of kosher make out sessions!

Writing GOD - with all 3 letters

It is forbidden to destroy God's name. Thus, many refrain from writing God and instead write G-d , G.d or some other form of the word.

But the truth is, you can write out GOD all together. It isn't the hashem's name. It is a word in English. God.

Just for kicks, I'll quote the Aish Rabbi for you. He explains two issues going on - at both the legal and emotional levels:

"First the legal side: The Torah exhorts us to destroy idolatry, and from here we learn the injunction not to erase the name of God. (see Deuteronomy 12:3-4)

"The question is whether this applies only to Hebrew names of God, or to the English word "God" as well. The common rabbinic opinion is that "God" written in any language other than Hebrew, has no holiness and can be erased. (see Shach Y.D. 179:11, and Mishneh Brura 85:10)

"There is still the other issue of giving the Name proper respect. This means not taking Torah material into the bathroom, and not throwing it out with the rest of the garbage. Instead, you should bring the printed material to the synagogue and place it in a box called "Geniza" (a.k.a. "Sheimos"). This box is used to discard unusable holy objects -- including Torah scrolls that have become old and invalid, old Tefillin and Tzitzit, and papers that contain words of Torah.

"When the box is full, it is taken to be buried.

"Now what about spelling the English name "God"? Even though it does not technically have "holiness," some people go beyond the letter of the law and show extra respect, by spelling God with a dash.

"Why doesn't Aish.com spell it with a dash? Because many of our readers have little Jewish background, and spelling God with a dash might look strange and pose some block to learning the material. So in consultation with leading Torah scholars, we simply follow the halacha stated above, that non-Hebrew names can be erased.

"An interesting extension of this topic is the issue of deleting God's name from a computer screen. It seems that nothing is being written or erased, except for electromagnetic impulses. Actually, when you display any word on your screen, you are erasing and rewriting it 50 or 60 times a second. So when you press "delete" or turn off your screen, you're not doing anything worse than you have just done thousand of times in the last few minutes.

"And one more corollary: Rabbi Moshe Feinstein writes that although there does not appear to be anything wrong with erasing cassette tapes containing God's name on it, when possible one should refrain from doing so as a sign of reverence. (Igros Moshe - Y.D. I, 173)"

So, you can post on here as you like, but I'll be spelling out God with all three letters in a row. That means if you disagree with the halachic validity of my approach and you read the penultimate paragraph in the quoted text then I'm sorry, but you can be somech upon me. I'll take the wieght for all such God deletion aveirot that occur in your reading of this page.

Kosher Kisses?

Do our kisses have kosher status?

Seriously, do kisses - do lips, do tongues - carry milk or meat status form the foods we eat? Could someone even have a 'treif' mouth if they ate something I wouldn't be comfortable eating?

Say my wife and I are eating a meal together - but she has a steak and I have ice cream - can we simply rinse our mouths, make out, then return to our respective foods, with the occaisional l'chaim to cleanse and kiss between bites?

Do I have to wait six hours to lose the meat status in my mouth (or one hour or three or whatever I hold?), or do I have to rinse it? Can the status of my mouth change without doing birkat hamazon? Are open and closed mouths treated differntly in this respect?

Or perhaps there is nothing to worry about and this is all just a little overboard.

Let's look into this and bring back answers.

Please respond with your halachic sources or stories.

Welcome

Thanks for reading ModernJew!

I hope this will be a forum for exploring modern orthodoxy.

I know I am not alone when I say orthodoxy has moved to the right.

Let's discuss what the halacha really is. Orthodox halacha. Keeping all the mitzvot.

But dropping the humras (stringencies). Letting us decide where to draw our own red lines rather than rabbis.

Exploring what to do when two mitzvot conflict - perhaps you should break shabbos sometimes - but when? Or what do you do if you need to eat and all there is is trief?

So - please, join the discussion, post your thoughts, flame me, love me or just read me, but let's put Judaism back in the realm of the signposts given by the Torah and take it back from those who've taken it away from us.

All the best,

modernjew.blogspot.com